[POLITICS] Attention New Hampshirite Oppos

"For Sweden" (rallybeetle) 02/11/2020 at 10:00 • Filed to: Politics, New Hampshire, Lease, Yang Gang, Let's Get This Bread

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I’m not telling you how to vote, but consider these lease deals for under $1000 per month.

jimz > For Sweden 02/11/2020 at 10:09

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that’s well over twice what I’d be willing to spend on a car. 

Ash78, voting early and often > jimz 02/11/2020 at 10:24

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You’re forgetting about the Universal Basic Car Allowance that half the candidates are pushing.

Just don’t go too far with it or they’ll tax you on your wealth. Which will fund the UBCA. It’s like you’re paying yourself!

facw > For Sweden 02/11/2020 at 10:26

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Reminder that Warren’s wealth tax starts at $50M and stays pretty affordable until $1B, so even if you can afford these high-priced leases, Warren’s plan won’t keep you from buying any of these fine automobiles.

For Sweden > facw 02/11/2020 at 10:41

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But how does that help me get that bread

facw > For Sweden 02/11/2020 at 10:51

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Well I think Yang’s right on universal basic income. Fortunately Warren’s at least willing to look at it:

Personally I think UBI is better solution than the minimum wage, doing more to empower people without creating incentives to slash jobs.

For Sweden > facw 02/11/2020 at 11:21

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I need to secure the bag with a sure thing

atfsgeoff > facw 02/11/2020 at 11:43

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You realize UBI will cause hyperinflation, right? After a few years, a loaf of bread will cost $50 .

For Sweden > atfsgeoff 02/11/2020 at 11:53

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That's why we need UBI to get this bread

haveacarortwoorthree2 > For Sweden 02/11/2020 at 12:23

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Forget those. You can pick up a McLaren 570GT with less than 8k miles for under $150k.  lol

For Sweden > haveacarortwoorthree2 02/11/2020 at 12:26

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Can I l ease them for $1000/month?

facw > atfsgeoff 02/11/2020 at 12:28

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It would have to be much higher to cause that problem, and there’s no reason to think we wouldn’t be able to expand the economy  to absorb additional spending.

atfsgeoff > facw 02/11/2020 at 12:38

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Would it? 200 million adults * $12,000 per year equals $24 trillion a year. That’s slightly more than the United States’ entire annual GDP.

facw > atfsgeoff 02/11/2020 at 12:45

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Your math is wrong, that would be $2.4T not $24T. Regardless you aren’t adding, you are redistributing. There’s no new money to cause runaway inflation. Surely there will be some in the short-term , as spending patterns are different (I’d expect housing costs to rise), but there’s no reason to believe things will spiral out of control. Prices would rise, and those extra profits would allow businesses to expand to meet new demand. Since wages paid by businesses wouldn’t increase (there might be small gains from workers having more leverage), there’s no reason they couldn’t match current pricing when things stabilize. It would probably be good to do a gradual ramp rather than an immediate benefit to minimize these effects.

atfsgeoff > facw 02/11/2020 at 12:53

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If you’re not printing new money and just taxing the hell out of everyone who works for a living, that disincentivizes people from working at all. Why would you work your ass off just to have the government take half, when the government will just send you free money (untaxed!) just for breathing?

facw > atfsgeoff 02/11/2020 at 12:57

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Because you tax the rich, who aren’t working for that money. And they still want to invest it because they need a return on capital to ensure that their fortunes continue to grow.

atfsgeoff > facw 02/11/2020 at 12:59

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The ultra-rich will not be affected by this at all, their money will be safely held in off-shore accounts under shell foreign corporations that are not subject to US taxation. The money has to come from somewhere, and that somewhere will be the middle class.

fintail > For Sweden 02/11/2020 at 13:01

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Laughable prices unless virtual sign and drive, especially for prior year models . First rule of leasing: put as little up front as possible.

facw > atfsgeoff 02/11/2020 at 13:04

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Then go after the rich. Close the loopholes that allow them to stash money overseas, spend more on enforcement. We don’t have to accept the idea that rich can rig and cheat the system with impunity.

Also note that the effect you describe doesn’t really happen in real life. The US had a top marginal tax rate of around 90% from the end of WWII until mid-60's and coupled that with the world’s strongest economy. Economists disagree as to what the optimal rate is, most think it can be significantly higher than it is today.

atfsgeoff > facw 02/11/2020 at 13:10

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Wealth, social status and political power all go hand-in-hand. Tax law is written by the wealthy. Even when the proletariat go revolutionary and take out the oligarchy like in the Bolshevik Revolution, that just results in a power vacuum which is quickly occupied by a new ruling class that invariably becomes corrupt with power and uses said power to gain and maintain wealth. 

facw > atfsgeoff 02/11/2020 at 13:16

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That seems like foolish defeatism to me. You definitely aren’t going to ever be able to hold anyone to account if you go into feeling like it’s impossible. We certainly have had periods where we have been able to reign in the wealthy both socially and economically.

camarov6rs > atfsgeoff 02/11/2020 at 13:23

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I see how something similar happened once we started guaranteeing college loans but that was a specific example. You wouldn’t see the same hyperinflation across everything would you? This is given that not every person in the US is going to go and buy the same thing/things. I feel like there would be such a wide range of purchases that the inflation wouldn’t be crazy everywhere.

Also if I remember right Yang is saying you get UBI or food stamps/housing not both unless you are basically the bottom of the barrel poor.  

atfsgeoff > facw 02/11/2020 at 13:33

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Yes, transitionally. it’s all a game of cat & mouse. I like to think of it this way: UBI in its best-case scenario will stir the economic pot with minimal inflation and, for a little while, there will be some equitable distribution of wealth. But after 5, 10, maybe 20 years, the formerly-rich will be rich again and the poor will be just as destitute as before.

For Sweden > fintail 02/11/2020 at 13:36

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Who cares about the down payment when you have Yang Bucks

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > For Sweden 02/11/2020 at 16:01

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There’s a newish M4 in that same hideous yellow sitting in customer parking at my dealer right now. They put a wrap over the headlights in that same hideous yellow color, but translucent so they're probably still functional-ish. It's disgusting.

B/Xmrrmvr > facw 02/11/2020 at 16:25

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The Washington Post survey is cherry picking quotes to make Warren seem more open to UBI compared to Sanders when that’s not true. They’re both open to it but see their own plans as more effective .

Sen. Elizabeth Warren said she was open to pushing for universal basic income in a Washington Post survey published on Saturday.

“We absolutely must raise wages and strengthen the social safety net so that every American has basic financial security,” the Democratic presidential candidate told The Washington Post. “Universal basic income and universal living wages are options to consider.”

Warren later said she believed her proposals for a $15 minimum wage, strengthened unions, and empowered workers in large corporations would be effective in raising wages.

The Massachusetts senator previously said in an interview with Vox’s Ezra Klein that many other things to bolster the middle class had to be accomplished before the federal government would be in a position to send every American a check they could live on.

“I think there’s so much more that we should do before we get there. There’s so much more we should do. Start with the wealth tax. Come on. Start with universal childcare and education, and investment in education from zero on through college,” Warren said.

She added: “Do the student-loan-debt forgiveness, and that’ll start to close the black-and-white wealth gap. Use my housing plan and attack redlining straight on. Help close the differences between the poorest in this country and the middle class.”

The Warren campaign did not respond to a request for comment.

facw > B/Xmrrmvr 02/11/2020 at 16:28

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I mean, they are using the answers the candidates gave them. You can argue that the answers they gave the Post aren’t really indicative of their positions, but I don’t see how you can say the Post is cherry picking.

For Sweden > AMGtech - now with more recalls! 02/11/2020 at 16:47

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I would spend my Yang Bucks on it

B/Xmrrmvr > facw 02/11/2020 at 16:53

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It was stated in the article that the survey also factored in statements and voting records, though looking back at it now I guess they might have meant statements and voting records were send back with the questionnaires?

But it also wouldn’t surprise me if Warren is lying. It w ouldn’t be the first time.

fintail > For Sweden 02/11/2020 at 18:14

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lol UBI is about as likely in the land of the temporarily embarrassed millionaire as those lease offers are likely to be good deals.

For Sweden > fintail 02/11/2020 at 18:15

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Souns like s omeone isn’t getting this bread